to a higher tax rate. i think they would be fine getting rid of some of the loopholes, but if this goes to where it's just higher tax rates on the rich and very little spending cuts, they little reform, i think there will be huge outrage. >> how about a sizable adjustment in entitlements, a big -- billions of dollars in cuts in regular spending, appropriations spending, and a reduction in the rich person's tax rate, a rise to 37% or 38%, would that sell with the right or not? >> i think there's a chance if they would see real reform, real cuts, more than what the president was saying, 2.5 times of cuts for every tax increase, but what they don't want are tax increases now and future cuts. that's not going to work. >> okay. thank you. just want to know what the rules were in the sane world and the insane world. i think it's going to be more like one to one and i think it's going to be something like i mentioned. let me go back to you, bob. i don't know what it looks like to you. just the other day, you don'